Topics
Replies
kobit
05 Aug 2020, 12:17
without illusions
michaelroger908 said:
kobit said:
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Michael,
I fully agree with you on my assessment of the whole situation.
We got a nave response from Panagiotis in which it is explained that it only supports technical issues. I understand it, but since these "technical issues" generate a serious financial conflict and it exceeds his competencies ... he should report it to his board.
However, I hope they will seriously deal with it now.
The matter seems simple to me. Stable1 knew well that he had appropriated this money undeservedly and that someone should have made him aware of the need to return it.
He's still running his account here, and he'll probably start earning legally now. He complains that he "made a mistake working for free". I think he delayed the fees too long, but getting followers in the "for free" promotion is a good idea. Now he has lost a lot, especially recently after two days of declines. Maybe it's better to have 600 followers for 20% than 200 for 30%? This is his business, he is such a good strategist that he will probably cope with it in the long run.
Of course, I wish him this .. and everyone who plays here.
- for now I am waiting warmly for my money back
Best wishes
Kobit
Dear Prof Kobit,
I am sadden by Ms Christiana Dunga's (IC Markets) reply. She took the similar approach that IC Markets does not interfere with the cTrader's details of the trading system. Even though she left it open for further assistance, I could observed that neither Ctrader nor IC Markets would be taking a deeper dive into understanding the issue. My understanding of things is that Stable 1 may not even be aware of the glitch and may realise that he had a sudden windfall because of this issue. However even though Stable 1 would like to return the money, CTrader does not have the avenue to do so. This is where the accountability lies with Ctrader for failing to provide a fair platform and IC Markets for failing to probe into the matters respectively.
I chance upon ASIC and I understand IC Markets is regulated by them. Here's an extract :
"ASIC has several systems in place to improve trader confidence including:
A compensation scheme that protects client funds in the event of broker insolvency.
Several educational programs such as the MoneySmart program, whose aim is to educate traders and help them maximise their returns.
Services that help with reclaiming lost money in dormant accounts.
Codes of practice that people must familiarise with before investing in the markets.
A support system that handles any complaints against member firms or ASIC staff. People can file complaints straight to the ASIC consumer helpline which deals with many issues such as financial malpractice, fraud and tip-offs."
Prof, I am thinking of putting up a whistle-blow IC Markets for the financial malpractice as my account has been freezed wrongfully and some of my friends wrongfully deducted.
Whats your view on this? Any other bodies we could raise the attention to also?
Yours Sincerely
Michael
Dear Michael,
after another answer, I got rid of my illusions that anyone would take this matter seriously. They use the ping-pong method.
I wrote to you on PM yesterday.
- until later
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
04 Aug 2020, 15:25
RE:
ctid2151927 said:
Dear Kobit and everyone,
Please read that thread above and support my idea if you agree.
I have some evidence to lead that Ctrader Copy have a big leak and need to return money to copierYour sincerely,
Yong
Dear Yong,
I fully agree, only before going outside with this I decided to give IC Market one more chance to take it more seriously and wrote a letter to this senior support agent Christina asking for a final answer.
I am enclosing this letter for transparency in response to Michael.
- let's wait a moment longer, because the matter is so bizarre that I cannot believe it myself
- greetings
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
04 Aug 2020, 15:23
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Dear all,
ctrader.com is just a user community and the scope is to provide technical answers regarding cTrader platform. Based on this, I have explained to you how the system is designed to work and how we will change it in the future to accommodate your feedback. Having said that, we do not offer direct support to traders and cTrader community is by no means a customer support channel, as we do not have a direct business relationship with traders neither do we have a direct access to your accounts. Traders are clients of their brokers, therefore for complaints and compensation requests, you should contact your brokers directly.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Hi Panagiotis,
I have a question
- Has cTrader ever talked to Stable1 about this case?
Maybe he is an honest man and would like to pay without facing criminal sanctions?
Best Regards,
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
04 Aug 2020, 15:20
RE: Re: any success
michaelroger908 said:
kobit said:
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Michael,
I fully agree with you on my assessment of the whole situation.
We got a nave response from Panagiotis in which it is explained that it only supports technical issues. I understand it, but since these "technical issues" generate a serious financial conflict and it exceeds his competencies ... he should report it to his board.
However, I hope they will seriously deal with it now.
The matter seems simple to me. Stable1 knew well that he had appropriated this money undeservedly and that someone should have made him aware of the need to return it.
He's still running his account here, and he'll probably start earning legally now. He complains that he "made a mistake working for free". I think he delayed the fees too long, but getting followers in the "for free" promotion is a good idea. Now he has lost a lot, especially recently after two days of declines. Maybe it's better to have 600 followers for 20% than 200 for 30%? This is his business, he is such a good strategist that he will probably cope with it in the long run.
Of course, I wish him this .. and everyone who plays here.
- for now I am waiting warmly for my money back
Best wishes
Kobit
Dear Prof Kobit,
I am sadden by Ms Christiana Dunga's (IC Markets) reply. She took the similar approach that IC Markets does not interfere with the cTrader's details of the trading system. Even though she left it open for further assistance, I could observed that neither Ctrader nor IC Markets would be taking a deeper dive into understanding the issue. My understanding of things is that Stable 1 may not even be aware of the glitch and may realise that he had a sudden windfall because of this issue. However even though Stable 1 would like to return the money, CTrader does not have the avenue to do so. This is where the accountability lies with Ctrader for failing to provide a fair platform and IC Markets for failing to probe into the matters respectively.
I chance upon ASIC and I understand IC Markets is regulated by them. Here's an extract :
"ASIC has several systems in place to improve trader confidence including:
A compensation scheme that protects client funds in the event of broker insolvency.
Several educational programs such as the MoneySmart program, whose aim is to educate traders and help them maximise their returns.
Services that help with reclaiming lost money in dormant accounts.
Codes of practice that people must familiarise with before investing in the markets.
A support system that handles any complaints against member firms or ASIC staff. People can file complaints straight to the ASIC consumer helpline which deals with many issues such as financial malpractice, fraud and tip-offs."
Prof, I am thinking of putting up a whistle-blow IC Markets for the financial malpractice as my account has been freezed wrongfully and some of my friends wrongfully deducted.
Whats your view on this? Any other bodies we could raise the attention to also?
Yours Sincerely
Michael
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Michael and interested,
I fully support you, only before going outside with this I decided to give IC Market one more chance to take it more seriously and wrote a letter to this senior support agent Christina asking for a final answer.
I am enclosing this letter for the sake of transparency.
- let's wait a moment longer, because the matter is so bizarre that I cannot believe it myself
- greetings
Kobit
----------------------------------------------------
Dear Christina,
I was worried about your answer because it shows that you do not have supervision over the cTraider to which you entrust our money.
Their reply that "everything happened correctly" is extremely wrong and ignorant. It sanctions openly stealing my money and other followers affected by this system bug.
I would like to remind you that Stable1 had an account "for free" until July 22, then he changed to this 30% and only from then on should be charged a management fee and payout only after a month, August 22, and only for this month.
Taking our money straight away for the entire period backward was wrong.
I have a question
- Has cTrader ever talked to Stable1 about this case?
Maybe he is an honest man and would like to pay without facing criminal sanctions?
Because judging by these nonchalant responses on the cTrader forum ... they might not even have entered into such negotiations.
The group affected by this case wants to apply for arbitration to an external supervisory authority. For example to ASIC. I've also seen lawyer teams announce themselves to help out victims in the forex markets on a "success fee" basis with the perpetrators' costs. It is obvious to me that sooner or later I will get my money back.
I just wonder why we need all this fuss and bad advertising lowering your credibility.
Therefore, I once again call for this matter to be seriously addressed and perhaps unexpectedly easy to regulate
- and for a serious answer before it goes beyond the inner circle
@kobit
kobit
03 Aug 2020, 15:06
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: any success
michaelroger908 said:
kobit said:
michaelroger908 said:
kobit said:
michaelroger908 said:
Hi Kobit,
I am a fellow user of IC market also. I had the same issue and I wrote to them. They informed me that they could only write in to spotware to find out. Chance upon this forum. May I know if ctrader has addressed your issue?
Yours sincerely
Michael
Hi Michael,
as you can see in the previous correspondence ... the problem has not been resolved in any way so far.
I hope it is being processed by cTrader and it takes longer because it concerns a large number of people.
It is outrageous that I did not get any information about this ...despite inquiries about it and 8 days since my first notification.
- best regards
KobitDear Kobit,
Thank you for your reply. I read Mr Panagiotis's reply. I thought professionally he should indicate the date that Stable 1 increased his performance fees to 30% which I believed should be around 21-22 July. I was charged since 29th June which was 0 % fees which is ridiculous. We know what high water mark fees are and can only be paid for profit earned over the period after the 30% was declared. As the Head of Community, he should know better to quantify and substantiate his words with evidence. Could even offer an opportunity to PM us if the conversation is sensitive.
I am keen to join you in the legal discussion or to lodge a complaint too if our problems are not resolve amicably. I leave my email michaelroger908@gmail.com.
Best Regards
Michael
----------------------------------------
Dear Michael,
I already got an answer from IC Market / after 45 minutes / from Christina Duna | Senior Support Agent | IC Markets. She promises to take care of it and asks for my patience.
It is not without reason that I chose this broker in the other hemisphere of the world, because they are subject to the Australian Banking Supervision Authority, with up to $ 20,000 of my possible losses secured.
I hope that I will not be forced to refer to them, because it is not pleasant for me and does not build confidence in this trading system.
A quick answer gives hope that the client will be taken seriously
and not waiting for a reply 10 days as it was with Mr Panagiotis, which seems to be unless I'm a small child and settle for a story about a buggy system that will be fixed in the future. I understand this perfectly because I am a retired university professor who taught students design thinking. Mistakes happen even in large banking systems and people sometimes get unexpectedly large amounts of money in their accounts. Only if they try to appropriate it do they come under the penal system.
"Stable1" adopted a well-known method of promoting itself by keeping an "for free fee" account at the beginning. When he had a lot of followers, he changed the contract to introduce the 30%. Until now, everything was OK, only when he got the money from the fee that he shouldn't have received and returned ... it wasn't OK anymore. He knew she couldn't get any money since she had initially offered a "for free" contract.
As you can see from the screenshot I turned on, the system took my money at 10:15 am on July 22nd and within an hour I reported it here on the forum.
cTrader probably had the opportunity to block the possibility of this payment or inform about criminal liability in the event of failure to return.
Instead, now trying to transfer the financial consequences of the mistake to me and other victims.
- let's wait for the matter to be clarified and our money back without any additional complaints
Yours sincerely
Kobit
Dear Prof Kobit,
Its been a pleasure corresponding to you. For your information, Ms Christina from IC Markets is also investigating into my complaints of wrongful deduction of over $US 13k in performance fees over the Free-trading period. It getting obvious Mr Panagiotis is not reflecting on "what should be fair/correct" and has not reply to other similar complaints regarding Stable 1's wrong fee charging. I was initially pleased with cTrader providing us with a platform to trade together. However, I am also beginning to feel vulnerable, learning how a simple case is being mishandled with insincerity by the company's representative. I really hope that it is an individual and that any Board of Directors can instruct a deeper investigation into this matter.
I agree that we wait for more clarity and hopefully this case can be resolved. Meanwhile, I would like to share this legit situation, alerting the community of our technical glitch experiences until cTrader extends its genuine listening ear and resolve.
Yours Sincerely,
Michael
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Michael,
I fully agree with you on my assessment of the whole situation.
We got a nave response from Panagiotis in which it is explained that it only supports technical issues. I understand it, but since these "technical issues" generate a serious financial conflict and it exceeds his competencies ... he should report it to his board.
However, I hope they will seriously deal with it now.
The matter seems simple to me. Stable1 knew well that he had appropriated this money undeservedly and that someone should have made him aware of the need to return it.
He's still running his account here, and he'll probably start earning legally now. He complains that he "made a mistake working for free". I think he delayed the fees too long, but getting followers in the "for free" promotion is a good idea. Now he has lost a lot, especially recently after two days of declines. Maybe it's better to have 600 followers for 20% than 200 for 30%? This is his business, he is such a good strategist that he will probably cope with it in the long run.
Of course, I wish him this .. and everyone who plays here.
- for now I am waiting warmly for my money back
Best wishes
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
31 Jul 2020, 22:36
RE: RE: RE: Re: any success
michaelroger908 said:
kobit said:
michaelroger908 said:
Hi Kobit,
I am a fellow user of IC market also. I had the same issue and I wrote to them. They informed me that they could only write in to spotware to find out. Chance upon this forum. May I know if ctrader has addressed your issue?
Yours sincerely
Michael
Hi Michael,
as you can see in the previous correspondence ... the problem has not been resolved in any way so far.
I hope it is being processed by cTrader and it takes longer because it concerns a large number of people.
It is outrageous that I did not get any information about this ...despite inquiries about it and 8 days since my first notification.
- best regards
KobitDear Kobit,
Thank you for your reply. I read Mr Panagiotis's reply. I thought professionally he should indicate the date that Stable 1 increased his performance fees to 30% which I believed should be around 21-22 July. I was charged since 29th June which was 0 % fees which is ridiculous. We know what high water mark fees are and can only be paid for profit earned over the period after the 30% was declared. As the Head of Community, he should know better to quantify and substantiate his words with evidence. Could even offer an opportunity to PM us if the conversation is sensitive.
I am keen to join you in the legal discussion or to lodge a complaint too if our problems are not resolve amicably. I leave my email michaelroger908@gmail.com.
Best Regards
Michael
----------------------------------------
Dear Michael,
I already got an answer from IC Market / after 45 minutes / from Christina Duna | Senior Support Agent | IC Markets. She promises to take care of it and asks for my patience.
It is not without reason that I chose this broker in the other hemisphere of the world, because they are subject to the Australian Banking Supervision Authority, with up to $ 20,000 of my possible losses secured.
I hope that I will not be forced to refer to them, because it is not pleasant for me and does not build confidence in this trading system.
A quick answer gives hope that the client will be taken seriously
and not waiting for a reply 10 days as it was with Mr Panagiotis, which seems to be unless I'm a small child and settle for a story about a buggy system that will be fixed in the future. I understand this perfectly because I am a retired university professor who taught students design thinking. Mistakes happen even in large banking systems and people sometimes get unexpectedly large amounts of money in their accounts. Only if they try to appropriate it do they come under the penal system.
"Stable1" adopted a well-known method of promoting itself by keeping an "for free fee" account at the beginning. When he had a lot of followers, he changed the contract to introduce the 30%. Until now, everything was OK, only when he got the money from the fee that he shouldn't have received and returned ... it wasn't OK anymore. He knew she couldn't get any money since she had initially offered a "for free" contract.
As you can see from the screenshot I turned on, the system took my money at 10:15 am on July 22nd and within an hour I reported it here on the forum.
cTrader probably had the opportunity to block the possibility of this payment or inform about criminal liability in the event of failure to return.
Instead, now trying to transfer the financial consequences of the mistake to me and other victims.
- let's wait for the matter to be clarified and our money back without any additional complaints
Yours sincerely
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
31 Jul 2020, 15:56
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi kobit,
Performance fees are charged based on the High Water mark principle.The High-Water Mark is the amount of funds on a Copy Trading Account with which the Performance Fee was previously paid. It makes sense that if the Performance Fee of the Strategy equals zero (0), then the amount paid to the Strategy Provider will equal zero, and thus, the High-Water Mark value will equal zero as well.
If the Performance Fee is greater than 0, then it will be paid from the Net profit of the Strategy Follower at the rate of the percentage specified by the Strategy Provider. Therefore, if the Performance Fee is greater than 0, then when a Follower is removing funds from the Copy Trading Account, the Copy system will charge the Performance Fee, taking into account the previous High-Water Mark value. Thus, all the Copy Trading profit will be taken into account when charging the Performance Fee.
The reverse situation, in turn, is fair as well. If the Strategy’s Performance Fee equals zero (0), and the Follower has incurred a loss during the copying process, then, regardless of the moment of the Performance Fee change, the Strategy Provider will receive the Performance Fee only when the Follower gets the profit that covers the initial loss.
This is a well-known disadvantage of the current approach of calculating the Performance Fee with the High-Water Mark. That’s why we are going to change the calculation of the High-Water Mark value, although its original meaning as the amount with which the Performance Fee is paid will be slightly distorted.
According to the new approach, the High-Water Mark will be updated when the Copying is stopped or the funds are removed by a Follower, or at the end of each month of copying, regardless of the actual payment of the Performance Fee. The new cTrader Copy version with this update, as well as the number of other useful features, will be available in production in the near future.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Hi Pantagiotis,
you explain to me by telling about the "watermarks" why this miscalculation happened and hope to correct it in the future.
However, I do not want to pay for this defective billing and want to get my incorrectly calculated money back.
For now, I wrote to IC Market with a request for mediation. If this is not successful, I will take legal action.
However, I would prefer to avoid it, so I am asking you once again to honestly account for this situation.Best Regards,
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
31 Jul 2020, 14:30
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi kobit,
We have investigated this issue and the fee was charged as it should. When there is a change in fees then the new fee is charged since the date of the previous high watermark. A high watermark is recorded when a monthly fee is charged or a withdrawal is taken from the account. Since the performance fee was 0 for the previous period there was no new high watermark recorded since you started copying hence you have been charged a fee for the entire profit generated by the strategy.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Hi Panagiotis,
your "We investigated the issue and were charged as it should"
led to an irrational conclusion.
As you write yourself, the previous copying fee was 0 and at the time of the change it immediately charged 30% back. Nowhere in the world is the legal principle retroactive.
The strategy provider got a reward that he did not require before and should now return it. I lost $ 428 illegally paid on this maneuver and I'm not going to leave it there.
Please consider this matter again using the principles of reason and honesty. Otherwise, I will have to refer the matter to my lawyers and the Commission for Banking Supervision.
- greetings
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
30 Jul 2020, 11:47
RE: Re: any success
michaelroger908 said:
Hi Kobit,
I am a fellow user of IC market also. I had the same issue and I wrote to them. They informed me that they could only write in to spotware to find out. Chance upon this forum. May I know if ctrader has addressed your issue?
Yours sincerely
Michael
Hi Michael,
as you can see in the previous correspondence ... the problem has not been resolved in any way so far.
I hope it is being processed by cTrader and it takes longer because it concerns a large number of people.
It is outrageous that I did not get any information about this ...despite inquiries about it and 8 days since my first notification.
- best regards
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
24 Jul 2020, 14:07
RE: RE:
kobit said:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi kobit,
Can you please let us know your broker and your account number?
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Hi Panagiotis,
broker it's IC Markets
and my account number is visible on the screen I attached earlier
1094634
Best regards,
Kobit
Hi Panagiotis,
how long may it take for this recovery procedure not to properly downloaded $ 428.86?
I've been waiting for the 3rd day and I don't have enough capital to recover.
Should I expect it to take a few weeks?
Yours sincerely
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
23 Jul 2020, 11:07
( Updated at: 21 Dec 2023, 09:22 )
RE: incorrect performance calculation
ctid2151927 said:
Dear Sir,
I've been copying a strategy called Stable1 for while. As first he was offering a free signal for a while. On July 22nd, he stop copying and change the performance fee to be 30% that is fine with me. When I start recopy, if I tried to stop copy system will calculate 30 % from the performance of the all profit that made before July 22nd. I think this is not correct. Could you help me correct this problem, please. My broke is IC Market account number are1. 1124229 the balance when start recopy is 1910.50
2. 1124376 the balance when start recopy is 1575.82
3. 1133658 the balance when start recopy is 2267.26
The 30% performance fee should be calculate only the profit new made over these balance.
- thi's the same problem that I reported one item lower in this forum as "Bad settlement" 07/22/20 / 12.40 h
- Kobit
@kobit
kobit
21 Jul 2020, 01:13
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi kobit,
I do not understand what do you mean when you say "copy my settings". Can you please elaborate?
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Hi Panagiotis,
I do not tarde myself, but I have an account copying others.
I am asking if I can be a supplier of such a strategy?
So that someone else can copy my "copying account" directly?
- best regards too,
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
25 Jun 2020, 13:31
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi Kobit,
You can request this information from your broker.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Hi Panagiotis,
You have traditionally sent me to "my broker".
At ICMarket I can download to HTML only the sum of my bills with payments for individual strategies. But I don't see individual daily transactions there and probably won't, because individual transactions are a matter of cTrader.
Strategic suppliers can download such a list on cTrader from the "statement" tab on the "trade" page, but copiers can not.
They can only view the "copy" page but not print the HTML list.
- please tell me, is this HTML download with a list of daily investments possible somewhere?
- Yours sincerely
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
25 Jun 2020, 13:30
RE: RE: download the ctrader desktop
alizpolaki said:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi Kobit,
You can request this information from your broker.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
My dear friend, download the ctrader desktop to be able to print a statement in HTML
Ali, For me as the copier this field is empty..
@kobit
kobit
24 Jun 2020, 16:44
RE:
Hi Panagiotis,
Alizpolaki has already written to me about this, I have increased my contribution ... maybe it will be okay.
But I still don't know how you can print a statement in HTML from these transactions, in the Copy tab I don't see this option and in the Trade tab you can only check payments for strategy suppliers.
- could you suggest something?
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
24 Jun 2020, 12:47
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi Kobit,
You need to check with your broker if these orders have been executed but rejected for any reason e.g. not enough funds. If these orders have not been executed at all, please let us know to investigate further.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Hi Panagiotis,
thank you for the advice ... I will try to check with my ICMarket broker, I just don't know how to do it.
I can see the "Financial Transaction History" tab but the data is not there.
Could you advise how to do this?
Best regards,
Kobit
@kobit
kobit
20 Jun 2020, 15:27
( Updated at: 21 Dec 2023, 09:22 )
The same problem copying "Just Scalping"
Hi Panagiotis,
My account is called "Kobit" and I have the same problem copying "Just Scalping" run by Alizpolaki.
Let's analyze June 18.
I started this game with a $ 130.58 account balance and finished this copy with $ 107.60. The loss is $ 22.98. That means I lost 17.6% of my initial capital that day.
At the same time, the supplier of this strategy did not lose, but gained even about 4%. as seen on the attached scereen. It follows that instead of around $ 135 I only had $ 107 with this loss and that makes a difference of around $ 28.
It probably results from a large number of transactions with which the cTrader program cannot cope, because that day "Just Scalping" made 228 and I had only 166 in total.
Can anything be done about it?
KO
@kobit
kobit
06 Apr 2020, 16:26
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi kobit,
Can you try a hard refresh (Ctrl+F5) or accessing in Private Mode and let me know if it resolves the problem?
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
- you made me laugh with this advice about F5 :)
Since yesterday I have tried unsuccessfully to log in .. I was waiting thinking that this is a server error.
I checked in google now ... it only helped in this case "To delete cookies and site data for a website you're currently visiting"
- stay healthy Panagiotis !
@kobit
kobit
07 Sep 2020, 13:04
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Hi Panagiotis,
it is very necessary .. and this is how long it takes to prepare.
Hope it won't take years.
Please let me know when there is such a possibility.
Best regards,
Kobit
@kobit