Concerned
Concerned
03 Dec 2020, 05:26
Having looked closely at copy trader for a short time, is anyone else as concerned as i am. It seems very flawed, anyone can just sign up, manipulate return percentages then blow up accounts with not a single ounce of responsibility. I guess as long as the brokers are making money from other peoples loses no one cares!?!?!
Surely there is a moral obligation on the suppliers behalf? Disappointing to see all round.
Replies
DarkMatter
03 Dec 2020, 09:06
It always amazes me how people always try to shift the responsibility of their own bad choices. You decide without any force and with all the necessary information in front of you to invest into a strategy managed by a nickname with a three digit balance that makes three digits % in profits every month using some martingale or grid strategy, you enjoy the ride as long as it lasts, but when the thing eventually blows up, you are looking for responsibilities at the platform or the broker.
The whole point of social trading is to bypass somehow strict regulations, allow ordinary people to provide strategies and ordinary people follow them. Most of the available social trading platforms provide you with all the tools you need to understand the risk of the decision you make before pressing the button. If you need somebody to be responsible for your money and report to you, invest in a pension fund, not in social trading.
@DarkMatter
theFXlonglunch
03 Dec 2020, 10:58
It's a shame that a big company like ctrader can create such a flawed system and pump it out like a legitimate product. It is so open to manipulation you couldn't suggest it is legit. This is a flagship product they promote.
I'd love to know the percentage of copytrader accounts that have been blown.
@theFXlonglunch
PanagiotisCharalampous
03 Dec 2020, 12:11
Dear theFXlonglunch,
Your accusations about cTrader Copy are very serious. Therefore, please provide evidence why cTrader Copy is flawed and manipulated else I will have to remove this discussion from the forum. Unjustified defaming is not tolerated in this forum.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
@PanagiotisCharalampous
theFXlonglunch
03 Dec 2020, 12:50
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Dear theFXlonglunch,
Your accusations about cTrader Copy are very serious. Therefore, please provide evidence why cTrader Copy is flawed and manipulated else I will have to remove this discussion from the forum. Unjustified defaming is not tolerated in this forum.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Hi,
If i click strategies, the first one on the list is called fish. It states it has made over 7000 % return since the 30th November.
Do you feel this is an accurate representation ?
Mate, i want this concept to work as much as the next person, but the returns are totally misleading. Do you agree?
Or should i expect a 7000% return on my funds in 4 days?
Kind Regards.
@theFXlonglunch
theFXlonglunch
03 Dec 2020, 12:59
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Dear theFXlonglunch,
Your accusations about cTrader Copy are very serious. Therefore, please provide evidence why cTrader Copy is flawed and manipulated else I will have to remove this discussion from the forum. Unjustified defaming is not tolerated in this forum.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
If ctrader would like to make this copytrader a serious place for traders it needs a complete overhaul, surely you can see this?
I expect this post to be deleted, which is a shame. Maybe ctrader could look long term with the way it functions. At the moment you should have so many more people investing, trading and copying, but the reason you don't is because it is manipulated by the traders to trick people into thinking they will get amazing returns. Stable 1's account fell apart today. Another 500k of peoples money lost.
@theFXlonglunch
PanagiotisCharalampous
03 Dec 2020, 13:05
Dear theFXlonglunch,
Yes it is. The formula for the ROI is documented and the strategy deals are publicly available. You can make the calculations yourself. If you think that the calculations are wrong, please provide the necessary evidence e.g. an Excel sheet that proves our calculations wrong.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
@PanagiotisCharalampous
theFXlonglunch
03 Dec 2020, 13:15
( Updated at: 03 Dec 2020, 13:16 )
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Dear theFXlonglunch,
Yes it is. The formula for the ROI is documented and the strategy deals are publicly available. You can make the calculations yourself. If you think that the calculations are wrong, please provide the necessary evidence e.g. an Excel sheet that proves our calculations wrong.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
So you are happy with the way it is all going? Accounts blowing up all over the place with no responsibility for anyone? This is a brilliant product, but why would i invest again? I've had one account blown and another was in 50 per cent draw down before i closed it, and that's just in 2 days. These were 2 of the biggest accounts on your copytrader.
I ask you a question, show me proof of someone that has made 7000% in a year let alone 4 days.
I feel this is a pointless exercise but you must have it all documented in an excel sheet?
@theFXlonglunch
ctid2151927
03 Dec 2020, 13:52
( Updated at: 03 Dec 2020, 14:44 )
Dont waste you time arguing here
Dear theFXlonglunch.
Don't waste your time argue with him. I have evidence to point out what they did is wrong but Mr PanagiotisCharalampous walk away with no shame by just ignore my thread.
I think all we can do is just stay away from ctrader.
Just in case you pretend not to remember the case.
here it is
Until now I still didn't withdraw the money from that acc#1126424.
@ctid2151927
PanagiotisCharalampous
03 Dec 2020, 14:54
Dear theFXlonglunch,
We are platform providers and we provide a tool for people to offer strategies and investors to invest in them. We also provide you with all the information to make sensible decisions. It is not in our plans to apply any censorship on how does each strategy provider trade or who should each investor follow. Strategy providers and investors are solely responsible for their own decisions. If you need somebody else to be responsible for your own decisions, maybe this type of investment is not for you.
Having said that, you have still provided no evidence that the platform is flawed or manipulated in any way. If cannot understand that investing in an account which started with $4 and become $100 is a risky decision, then we cannot help you more than that. We provide you all the information and tools to make an informed decision.
Dear ctid2151927
The fact that you are not happy with the reply you got, it does not mean we did not reply.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
@PanagiotisCharalampous
theFXlonglunch
03 Dec 2020, 15:13
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Dear theFXlonglunch,
We are platform providers and we provide a tool for people to offer strategies and investors to invest in them. We also provide you with all the information to make sensible decisions. It is not in our plans to apply any censorship on how does each strategy provider trade or who should each investor follow. Strategy providers and investors are solely responsible for their own decisions. If you need somebody else to be responsible for your own decisions, maybe this type of investment is not for you.
Having said that, you have still provided no evidence that the platform is flawed or manipulated in any way. If cannot understand that investing in an account which started with $4 and become $100 is a risky decision, then we cannot help you more than that. We provide you all the information and tools to make an informed decision.
Dear ctid2151927
The fact that you are not happy with the reply you got, it does not mean we did not reply.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Ok thank you very much for your reply.
@theFXlonglunch
ctid2151927
03 Dec 2020, 15:36
( Updated at: 21 Dec 2023, 09:22 )
RE: RE:
Dear PanagiotisCharalampous,
Did you really reply me, I don't think so. If you please take a look once again and if you can explain to me that it's correct I own you a big apology.
Otherwise you own me a bigger one since I've been waiting for a long time.
Account# 1126424 Started 4th of July deposite 159.83 with free copy fee. On the Jul 22nd. The strategy provider stop, The balance become 281.84 total so the profit made is $122.1. I can not restart copy for sure since the Stable1 change copy rule to $500 minimum requirement and 30% performance fee. But as you can see in my screen capture, to remove the fund I've to pay $36.6 (30%of $122.1). Do you still say that deduction is correct?
@ctid2151927
PanagiotisCharalampous
03 Dec 2020, 16:33
Dear ctid2151927
Your question was if you will be charged fees before you start copying again the strategy and I answered, no you will not until you restart copying the strategy. My answer was specific to your question. You did not ask about withdrawals so my answer was not covering that case. Apologies if this was not clear. Based on the previous method of calculating the fees, they will be charged on withdrawal as well. We replied and explained why this happened and what changes we had planned to make for this behavior. This behavior has changed since this occurred and does not apply any more on cTrader Copy. But your fees were calculated based on the previous method and will be deducted on withdrawal.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
@PanagiotisCharalampous
ctid2151927
03 Dec 2020, 18:06
( Updated at: 03 Dec 2020, 18:37 )
RE:
PanagiotisCharalampous said:
Dear ctid2151927
Your question was if you will be charged fees before you start copying again the strategy and I answered, no you will not until you restart copying the strategy. My answer was specific to your question. You did not ask about withdrawals so my answer was not covering that case. Apologies if this was not clear. Based on the previous method of calculating the fees, they will be charged on withdrawal as well. We replied and explained why this happened and what changes we had planned to make for this behavior. This behavior has changed since this occurred and does not apply any more on cTrader Copy. But your fees were calculated based on the previous method and will be deducted on withdrawal.
Best Regards,
Panagiotis
Dear PanagiotisCharalampous,
1.Thanks for such a funny reply. Why blame my question. When I asked about the charge, everyone should know better that it cover the withdraw as well because the system doesn't charge when restart copy for sure. I've ask if "the copier didn't restart copy, will the system charge 30% to the profit made before or not". And I didn't restart copy.
2. You said the behavior have changed. Is that mean I've pointed out the leak? But you still don't want to correct the mistake the system make before.
3. I don't think you reply my last question on the thread and now I know why. You can't come up with a good reason, don't you?
I know that you may think that the amount of money that we are arguing is very small but the more important is about precision of the system and honesty.
Now I've dediced that I should stay away.
@ctid2151927
bnlf
04 Dec 2020, 07:48
RE:
theFXlonglunch said:
Having looked closely at copy trader for a short time, is anyone else as concerned as i am. It seems very flawed, anyone can just sign up, manipulate return percentages then blow up accounts with not a single ounce of responsibility. I guess as long as the brokers are making money from other peoples loses no one cares!?!?!
Surely there is a moral obligation on the suppliers behalf? Disappointing to see all round.
I think flawed is not the right word. The system is ok and all ctrader is doing is providing you with means to copy and provide signals accurately. That said, and considering the forex industry as a whole, organisations such as ctrader should come up with ways to better protect their customers from blowing up accounts. 99% of ppl, if not all, providing signals are mostly individuals with hardly any real experience trading forex and they just want to pocket some easy money from followers. These are not professionals. Their results are not exactly manipulated, but it is VERY easy to pretend you are a good trader for a short period of time. I can create multiple $100 accounts and randomly place some trades with massive risk. You just really need one of these to work to post your signal and appear in the top 10 list. Most people don't understand this and they naively put their savings under those so-called managed accounts to then lose everything right after. As a rule of thumb, if the trader has less than 12mo of trading history (trading every month multiple times), if their equity curve is not consistent (massive ups and downs), then don't even think about putting your money on it. You are better off trading yourself actually.
@bnlf
musicman
06 Feb 2021, 04:19
RE: RE:
I must agree. from my side of the fence it's also not good.
I want to be a signals provider. i start with something like 5k and produce steady returns without blowing up accounts.
so i hope to attract some copiers.
but then i look at the listings and i'm almost nowhere to be seen because some one started with 1000 $1 accounts and opposite traded them until it was as high as can be - and then they add that account to ctrader copy by this time they are 999 accounts down but the one that won all those times is in the 1000%+ club
This shouldnt be able to happen. the returns are only realistic by multiple accounts on a 50 / 50 chance and then picking the good one to move forward with. it's just how horse race tipsters whittle down hundreds of people into a handful of suckers.
How this is legal and how Ctrader allows this to happen is beyond me because it makes a great system of copy trading lose credibility.
the thing is the suckers fall for it - I saw accounts less than 2 months old with five and six figures in live copy traders. I produced 70% on a decent sized account in December only to be added by two demo traders and a mate who threw a grand in.
I decided that it's just not worth it and deleted the copy provider
It's not good for ctrader's reputation at all and i hate that because it's a beautiful peice of software.
@musicman
sutucha2004
03 Dec 2020, 08:46 ( Updated at: 03 Dec 2020, 08:48 )
RE:
theFXlonglunch said:
Agree. Resposible strategy providers must always put a hard stop loss on their own account, like 20%-30% hard stop loss, event if their account is only $100 or $1000. Plus the hard stop loss that copiers put in their accounts the risk would be under control.
@sutucha2004